What is the Difference between Gambling and Investing?

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What is the Difference between Gambling and Investing? (Page 1)

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Author	Topic: What is the Difference between Gambling and Investing?
Phaedrus	posted 02-02-2001 04:27 PM Well share ownership is about part owning companies Gambling is about . . . er gambling Phaedrus
slurm	posted 10-23-2000 04:42 PM Mercury Center chose twelve internet markets to watch in 2001, and gambling was on the list. http://www0.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/special/ebiz/gambling.html
InvestorGuide Weekly Administrator	posted 08-14-2000 01:38 PM Few people ever make money in day trading and most of those who lost, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars, didn't know beforehand how risky the practice is, Senate investigators concluded. (source: Yahoo) http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000809/bs/day_trading_dangers_1.html
greenjeans	posted 08-11-2000 05:00 PM How about this for a sign of the apocalypse: TheStreet.com has a sports gambler writing a column today...or maybe it is every week before the weekend during football season. I am not sure, but this guy is looking at odds for the college football season, who's going to win Survivor, and makes some picks for NFL preseason games (go Patriots). The ultimate is that the heading this column gets put under is "Personal Finance"--nice. http://www.thestreet.com/funds/vegas/1036366.html
greenjeans	posted 08-11-2000 05:00 PM How about this for a sign of the apocalypse: TheStreet.com has a sports gambler writing a column today...or maybe it is every week before the weekend during football season. I am not sure, but this guy is looking at odds for the college football season, who's going to win Survivor, and makes some picks for NFL preseason games (go Patriots). The ultimate is that the heading this column gets put under is "Personal Finance"--nice. http://www.thestreet.com/funds/vegas/1036366.html
mrcool	posted 08-11-2000 01:08 PM One comparison that was made in this discussion was that betting on horse races should be considered gambling, but owning a race horse could be considered investing. Now along comes a site that blurs the distinction. http://www.vop.org pools money from individuals and gives them fractional ownership in race horses (and presumably a share in the winnings). So is this gambling or investing? It feels like gambling to me, if only because I expect that most people who participate will lose most of their money.
newsman	posted 08-11-2000 12:52 PM Just found this on a news site. Not directly related to the current discussion, but still interesting: After being found guilty by a New York federal jury, the first person to be convicted on charges of operating an illegal offshore Internet sports gambling operation has reportedly been sentenced to almost two years in prison. A Reuters report said Jay Cohen, found guilty of operating a betting business illegally accepting bets and wagers on sporting events from Americans via the Web and telephone, was sentenced to 21 months and fined $5,000 by US District Judge Thomas Griesa. Cohen, co-owner of Antigua-based World Sports Exchange, is originally from Long Island, and now lives in San Francisco. He was the first defendant to be tried in a series of Internet offshore sports gambling cases brought under the federal Wire Wager Act. The law stipulates that it is illegal to use telephone lines in interstate or foreign commerce to place sports bets, and also bans the transmission of information that helps gamblers bet on sporting events. Manhattan US Attorney Mary Jo White said the case showed that sports betting operators accepting wagers from Americans will not avoid federal law by taking their business overseas, the report said.
Judg	posted 08-05-2000 02:20 AM Hi Common Sense. Sorry I took so long to get back to you but I'm not in here very often and vacation intervened also. I would distinguish futures trading from gambling on almost all fronts. The only common characteristic is the fact that it is a zero-sum game, although it could be argued that gambling odds are considerably worse, or else how would the house make a profit? If I were to formulate a definition of gambling, I would include the characteristic of entertainment. The primary purpose of gambling is supposedly entertainment and it is more or less incidental that some choose to try to make a living doing it. Secondly, it has no inherent social usefulness. Applying the profits from gambling to some socially acceptable use is again incidental. Futures trading doesn't qualify. It is an investment vehicle, not an entertainment one, and if some people are entertained by it, that is incidental. Secondly, commodity trading is absolutely central to economic activity and the liquidity provided by speculators is essential to keep the motor lubricated. I have personal reasons for trading futures also, but they don't really fit into this discussion. Hope this answers the question. quote: Originally posted by Common Sense: Judg, I just had one question for you, which I have been wondering about. You yourself describe futures investing as a "zero-sum game." So why are you doing it? Is it just a morality play? Do you think some of Tom's comments might get you to reconsider your trading/investing/gambling habits? Just curious.
scripter	posted 07-21-2000 05:24 PM Interesting article. I completely agree with the author that short-term trades make sense in some circumstances, regardless of whether you call the activity gambling or investing (by Tom's definition, it would probably be properly called investing). But since the author is a mutual fund manager, I would support this activity only if his shareholders are aware that this is part of his overall investment strategy. Since he's the manager of OpenFund, which is big on disclosure and accountability, his shareholders will soon understand his strategy, if they don't already. quote: Originally posted by Common Sense: I saw this posted on the InvestorGuide homepage and thought it might interest people thinking about this topic. The author is defending short-term trading...saying that it is getting a bad rap. Check it out. http://www.thestreet.com/comment/openbook/1007660.html
Common Sense	posted 07-21-2000 05:13 PM I saw this posted on the InvestorGuide homepage and thought it might interest people thinking about this topic. The author is defending short-term trading...saying that it is getting a bad rap. Check it out. http://www.thestreet.com/comment/openbook/1007660.html
greenjeans	posted 07-20-2000 12:36 PM Is it possible that people who have joined the ranks stayed away from gambling because of the stigma attached to it? Yet, when gambling-types of "investing" became accepted, it was a more culturally respected form of gambing and they jumped right in. I stil think if someone came up to 99% of americans and said, "I am a day-trader." they are going to get far more respect than someone who says, "I am a professional sports bettor." quote: Originally posted by banka: He basically makes the case that gamblers are looking for new ways to gamble, supporting the idea that some subset of the new breed of individual investors are really ex-gambler.
banka	posted 07-20-2000 11:44 AM In Yale economics professor Robert Shiller's new book "Irrational Exuberance," he lists an increase in a "gambling attitude" in the population as one of the 12 factors that precipitated the bull market. Over the last decade state lotteries have increased, casinos are popping up on riverbanks and reservations. Shiller argues the greater public acceptance of gambling helped increase the willingness of average investors to take risk. He basically makes the case that gamblers are looking for new ways to gamble, supporting the idea that some subset of the new breed of individual investors are really ex-gambler.
dude	posted 07-13-2000 09:46 AM I found this in a recent MarketWatch article about day trading and thought it was relevant: "As a day trader, you are in very good company. Specialists on the New York Stock Exchange, market-makers on commodities and options exchanges, and traders on the desks of every major Wall Street firm are all day traders -- and they are all highly respected and highly compensated professionals."
Common Sense	posted 07-10-2000 03:40 PM Judg, I just had one question for you, which I have been wondering about. You yourself describe futures investing as a "zero-sum game." So why are you doing it? Is it just a morality play? Do you think some of Tom's comments might get you to reconsider your trading/investing/gambling habits? Just curious. quote: Originally posted by Judg: Very thought-provoking! I must confess, these questions have floated through my mind on occasion but I haven't yet tried to formalize any conclusions. Sort of like pornography, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it!" The question is further complicated by the fact that it is futures trading I am interested in rather than stock trading. On one hand, it is a zero-sum game, with transaction fees effectively tipping the odds against the participant. I am still reluctant to label it gambling. On the other hand, I don't have to worry about what unsavoury activities wheat has been involved in in Third World countries or secluded manors in England, something that definitely comes up when considering buying Shell or Philip Morris. Which is not strictly speaking a gambling issue, but a morality one and therefore related.
newguy	posted 07-08-2000 12:24 PM Just found this in a Wired article about online gambling laws: "The bill, H.R. 4419, follows a related measure that the House Judiciary Committee approved this spring and forwarded to the House Commerce Committee, which must act no later than June 23. The second bill, H.R. 3125, was designed to outlaw many forms of Internet gambling. But lobbyists for special interests intervened, and horse racing, jai alai, casinos, and other activities won exemptions. As a result, some Christian conservative organizations no longer back the bill, and it seems to have disappeared into the congressional abyss. That bill was broader, and targeted individuals who "engaged in a gambling business knowingly to use the Internet or any other interactive computer service to place, receive, or otherwise make a bet or wager or to send, receive, or invite information assisting in the placing of a bet or wager." This bill suffers from the same problem Tom pointed out... it uses the word 'gambling' without defining exactly what it means. If they don't define it precisely, they're going to run into problems down the road.

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